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楼主: cyt333

网民朋友:HELP!巴黎学生对去年春天中法关系危机的调查

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新浪微博达人勋

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2009-6-18 23:16:56

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本帖最后由 aubonj 于 2009-6-19 00:19 编辑

咦,原来我可以自己屏蔽和警告自己的耶!!!!
哈哈

不知道要是我自己把自己警告三次会怎么样
2009-6-18 23:18:01

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有啥不可能的,水平这东西跟人的意愿有太大关系了。
2009-6-18 23:18:30

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有啥不可能的,水平这东西跟人的意愿有太大关系了。
阿 龙 发表于 2009-6-19 00:18



见人说人话,见鬼说鬼话?
2009-6-18 23:51:35

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...都冷静点嘛,就是帮忙填个表。就好了这个东西有什么可以生气了反正我们国家对于法国的态度肯定是确定的
2009-6-18 23:53:47

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本帖最后由 cyt333 于 2009-6-19 03:00 编辑

喜欢吹风 谢谢你 :)

Good morning everyone.

The owner of this account very kindly allowed me (the creator of the poll) to use his login so I could answer remarks and critics over here. I am sorry, I didn't go over all of them yet, especially the most developed ones at the beginning of the topic. As you may understand, although most of the poll can't be changed right now, I realized the feedback was important enough so I activated an email link at the top of the form. Feel free to send me stuff @ mujianming@gmail.com, although because of my poor Chinese I may need some time before I can answer everything. Thanks in advance.

To Aubouj, thank you for your concerns about my identity. Last time I checked my ID I was indeed some random SciencePo student. I don't think I really need to get back to the personal attacks Ive seen here and there in your posts, you're entitled to them, Internet's a free speech space - and I am sorry to give you such a poor idea of my current school. But I will answer the primary issue you underlined: yes, the poll "doesn't make sense" in itself. Sorry, although it is not made to tell a story, it's about helping me harvesting the information I need at different levels so I can write down my essay. The scope of the work is broader than just Tibet, Paris, Jin Jing, Carrefour or the nature of netizenship, it's about something else that just can't be detailed right now as long as I can't be sure of what will be my conclusions: I am counting on your benevolent involvement for this, so I can know where I am heading to on a certain number of matters once a lot of people will have answered my call. Thank you in advance, and thanks to everyone who answered it already.

Moreover, as bernteinIT may agree, I am TRYING my best to provide a large and logical panel of answer to the questions. It couldn't be perfect, and I quite agree I am nowhere close to perfection. :(
But well I even often left the netizens with the choice of writing down their own answer, so to show I care about your opinion, whatever it may be. So feel free to use this option every time you can in the form, including (ans especially) in the last question.

In the same fashion, I saw comments about the fact that poll was "too long", and seemed sometimes more like an "interview". It's true, but it is on purpose. I wanted to get the most out of each participation, and harvest a lot of information. I apologize for the length of the poll ("太长, 太长了"我已经知道, 请不要骂我 ^^) but please rest assured every bit of extra information you will put in there will allow me to establish a much deeper link with the community than the average anonymous poll.

Finally, I will gladly ask to those who enjoyed answering to this poll if they would be kind enough to send it to those among their friends who may be interested, so I can muster the largest number of answers possible. 非常感谢你们!
2009-6-19 01:33:00

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写这么长,lz还是没回答有关这个问卷客观性和偏向性的问题

这样的问卷会让lz选择性收集一方的观点,而另一方因为认为"问卷太烂",或者没有选项,而放弃回答。就算lz设置一个autre,又能如何,lz自己回答类似问卷的时候很愿意动脑子想想autre怎么填么?由己及人。我现在就差不多可以分析lz这个问卷得到的结果。

there is actually some researches about it. scientist tried to ask people a question like "there is a epidemic disease all over the world and the lethality is extremely high, now we develop a method that can save 3/4 of these people, should we apply this method right now?" many people will say yes. However, if the scientiist change the "save 3/4" by "kill 1/4", more people will just say no.
cann't remember the exact question, if you want to know, try to search it yourself.
lz说,I am sorry to give you such a poor idea of my current school.
what do you really want to say? who give who what idea?

lz说这不是为了tell a story,那不tell story就可以不make sense了?

每个人都不是完美的,这句话谁都会说。。。但是lz明显是借口了

lz写这么长英语里面还有几句汉语,如果没有汉语输入法,大部分人都在开始会说sorry i cannot type chinese一类的话,lz英夹汉,well...
2009-6-19 06:36:59

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问卷调查可以manipulate问卷结果已经是众所周知的了,搞社会学研究的不教这个简直是失职,搞社会学的不学这个简直是令人发指。。。
2009-6-19 06:42:10

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选项有点罗嗦,而且选项间反差不是很大。在选项里可以看出来设计人想尽量贴近中国“网民”的心理而不马上遭到排斥从而让人放弃问卷。用心良苦,但结果的可靠性不敢保证。

In English:
The choices do not have enough contrast among them, which will probably leave the respondents pondering on several similar ones, making the choices less representative. It's also obvious that the author of the pool tried hard not to provide choices that were, at least in his mind, "offensive" to the average Chinese "Netizen". Doing this may attract more respondents, but the neutrality of the pool will probably be sacrificed.
2009-6-19 08:16:06

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Prince, I understand your concern, and please be sure it crossed my mind when I wrote the whole survey. Yes, indeed, I tried my best not to seem offensive. But I tried to offer the complete opposite for every choice you could make, although the weight of each word may not be comparable: of course, most negative words were chosen because they were specifically used by Netizens on a large scale when talking about France during the crisis - while their opposite, being scarcely in use, may not correspond as easily to the reality as the more common depreciative ones do. That's why most of the questions which involve a multiple choice allow the user to write down his own mind. I am deeply sorry about that state of affair, and yes there is much room for improvement, you're completely right about that :)
The many cases where the users could wrote what they thought using their own words hopefully counterbalances a little bit a possibly clumsy choice for the other occurrences.
Thanks you for your feeback by the way! :)
2009-6-19 09:00:46

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我想要发信去问问难道这就是Science Po二年级研究生的水平?!还是假的
我不相信这是一个真正的Science Po的水平,完全不可能!!!
aubonj 发表于 2009-6-19 00:08


设计一个好的  让大伙开开眼

我咋觉得还行呢   我完全不是science pro二年级研究生水平
2009-6-19 11:08:32

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了不得   一帮子忙着批评的  看来耍嘴皮子就是轻松

问卷带有有倾向性那是最最正常不过  

我顶人家辛苦设计问卷的  也顶楼主
2009-6-19 11:10:37

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我想要发信去问问难道这就是Science Po二年级研究生的水平?!还是假的
我不相信这是一个真正的Science Po的水平,完全不可能!!!
aubonj 发表于 2009-6-19 00:08


你以为Science PO应该是什么水平,不过SP里中国留学生中美女不少,嘿嘿,
2009-6-19 11:13:49

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写这么长,lz还是没回答有关这个问卷客观性和偏向性的问题
问卷调查可以manipulate问卷结果已经是众所周知的了,搞社会学研究的不教这个简直是失职,搞社会学的不学这个简直是令人发指。。。

问卷怎么会有客观性? 谁说卷怎会有客观性? It's all about aiming for objectivity, but the day you'll have reached it by every standard, without anything influencing in any way the public, give us a call and write a book, you'll have resolved one of the oldest issues of Social Sciences by yourself.

这样的问卷会让lz选择性收集一方的观点,而另一方因为认为"问卷太烂",或者没有选项,而放弃回答。就算lz设置一个autre,又能如何,lz自己回答类似问卷的时候很愿意动脑子想想autre怎么填么?由己及人。我现在就差不多可以分析lz这个问卷得到的结果。

I tried to provide the users with a large panel of options, including custom ones. Everything that will be added by the users will be taken into consideration.
And if you really believe you can guess the outcome all by yourself, you're either very well acquainted with Netizen matters, or believe that your view stands for everyone else. I am not blessed with any of these abilities, so I will stick to my survey for the meantime. :)

what do you really want to say? who give who what idea?

I say Im sorry if I give a bad image of SciencesPo.

说这不是为了tell a story,那不tell story就可以不make sense了?

如果问卷的目的是给人讲个故事, 那论文有什么用? ^^
问卷的意思就是情报是汇编情报. 发凡思想就是论文的宗旨.

写这么长英语里面还有几句汉语,如果没有汉语输入法,大部分人都在开始会说sorry i cannot type chinese一类的话,lz英夹汉,well...

你明白我的话我写英文的时候. 我会明白你的话你写中文的时候. 哪对我communication的最重要的意思就是make oneself understood. 用我最掌握得外语水最平实的答案. 如果对你是另外一个事情, 我们好像就不会转告, 不好意思...
2009-6-19 11:14:22

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To the creator of the poll,
First of all, I apologize for my over reaction regarding to your poll. Indeed, I admired your school and its reputation since long and this will not change in despites of this internet discussion. I would be glad to share my point of view concerning the issue, if you don't mind.

In fact, I've entirely answered your questions and made a lot of comments on the comment place of the poll. For each part, I've marked all the contraries (in my opinion) between questions. The comments are in French and I wish you could remark them, as I've detailed the reasons in each comment place.

Truly, I am still sorry for my concern of your poll, but please believe that it is because I have so much hope on you and your school that some things in the poll make me...some kinds of disappoint
One thing I can never understand is that the poll considers the netizens as one entity! However, the fundamental difference between the modern society and the primitive society is the individualism. There is no such a thing the netizens the Chinese neither the Frenchmen. You will remark my comments on what concerns that not all the French people eat cheese and not all the Chinese eat dog. This collectivist thinking gave me a bad view of this poll.
Besides, I am agreeing with 雅歌 that the poll is manipulating the opinion. It seems like that by answering this poll you can only get what you want to hear! Typically something shows only one side of this issue, like nationalism (I don't like nationalism at all and I could hardly mark my opinion on this poll), like collectivism etc. I have made my comments about the matrix of confusion in statistics as you will remark it. As my studies give the possibilities to take an advantage in this field, I would like to say, the poll is not a good prediction model and will have a considerable error rate.
Finally, as the reaction we can see in this forum, we know that a great part of them have the same feeling about the poll. They cannot really express their opinion, their answers are used to say something else and then it will be considered as a scientific report! That’s also the thing which makes me disappointed. In reality, during the event of the last spring, a lot of people are somehow manipulated, if we can say like that. I think now, by answering those questions, I would probably ask, will someone just use this poll to “prove” what them want to prove? As someone of scientific background, I love the truth, so I cannot just answer the questions and say nothing. So I wish you can also remark my answers and comments.

I wish this discussion could be useful and fruitful, if we could forgive and understand each other.
Regards,
Aubonj
2009-6-19 11:15:02

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